Can a lifelong anti-war organizer change the mind of a country that has normalized permanent warfare? David Swanson, co-founder of World Beyond War and a veteran peace activist and author, believes the answer is yes — but only if people stop treating war as inevitable and start treating it as a policy choice that can be unmade.

In this episode of the Kianistan Podcast, host Tafhim Kiani sits down with David Swanson to explore how the United States sustains a permanent war economy, why so few wars are ever formally declared by Congress, and how the propaganda machinery around each new conflict follows an almost identical script decade after decade.

Swanson also discusses the movement to abolish war as an institution altogether, the role of the military-industrial complex in shaping foreign policy, and why he believes ordinary citizens still have more power than they realize to resist the drumbeats of war.

It is a wide-ranging and unflinching conversation about militarism, propaganda, and the possibility of building a genuinely more peaceful world.

Key Topics Discussed

The Permanent War Economy

Swanson explains how the United States has structured its economy and politics around continuous military spending, making war less an exception than a default setting of governance.

• How defense contractors lobby to keep weapons programs alive regardless of battlefield need
• The way military bases and jobs are spread across congressional districts to guarantee political support
• Why cutting the Pentagon budget is treated as politically untouchable in Washington
• The economic interests that quietly shape decisions to go to war

The Case for Abolishing War

As co-founder of World Beyond War, Swanson lays out the argument that war itself, not just individual conflicts, should be treated as an abolishable institution, much like slavery once was.

• Drawing parallels between the historical abolition of slavery and the modern movement against war
• Why treaties and international law already outlaw most wars, yet are rarely enforced
• The role of nonviolent conflict resolution as a practical alternative to armed intervention
• Building a global culture that no longer accepts war as a normal tool of statecraft

Propaganda and the Selling of War

Swanson walks through the recurring propaganda techniques used to manufacture public consent for new wars, from dehumanizing enemies to manufacturing atrocity stories.

• The recycled talking points used to justify interventions across different decades and regions
• How media coverage frames war as inevitable rather than as a choice made by policymakers
• The psychological tactics used to suppress dissent once a war has begun
• Why skepticism of official war narratives is treated as unpatriotic rather than prudent

Congress, the Constitution, and Undeclared Wars

The conversation turns to how the United States has fought wars for decades without formal congressional declarations, eroding constitutional checks on executive power.

• The last time the US Congress formally declared war and what has changed since
• How authorizations for use of military force have been stretched to cover unrelated conflicts
• The weakening of congressional oversight over military engagements
• What genuine accountability for war decisions could look like

Grassroots Organizing Against War

Swanson shares lessons from decades of anti-war organizing, including what has worked, what has failed, and how movements can rebuild momentum in an era of conflict fatigue.

• Building coalitions across the political spectrum against endless war
• Using local organizing to pressure national policy
• The challenge of sustaining anti-war energy between major conflicts
• Lessons from the movements against the Vietnam and Iraq wars

A Vision for a Post-War World

The discussion closes with Swanson’s outlook on what a demilitarized world could look like and the practical steps needed to get there.

• Redirecting military budgets toward diplomacy, aid, and climate resilience
• Strengthening international institutions capable of enforcing peace
• The role of individual citizens in shifting public opinion over time
• Why Swanson remains hopeful despite decades of setbacks

Major Takeaways

• War is sustained less by necessity than by entrenched economic and political interests.
• Propaganda techniques used to sell wars have remained remarkably consistent across generations.
• Congress has largely ceded its constitutional war powers to the executive branch.
• The abolition of war, while ambitious, has historical precedent in other institutions once thought permanent.
• Grassroots organizing has shifted public opinion on war before and can do so again.
• Redirecting military spending could address many of the underlying causes of global instability.

About David Swanson

David Swanson is an American author, journalist, and peace activist who co-founded World Beyond War, an international movement dedicated to ending war as an institution. He has spent decades campaigning against militarism, writing extensively on US foreign policy, war propaganda, and civil liberties.

Swanson has authored numerous books examining the history and mechanics of American war-making, and he remains an active voice in debates over military spending, congressional war powers, and nonviolent alternatives to armed conflict.

• Co-founder and director of World Beyond War
• Author of multiple books on war, propaganda, and US foreign policy
• Longtime organizer within the American anti-war movement
• Advocate for restoring congressional oversight of military engagements

About Kianistan Podcast

The Kianistan Podcast is a geopolitics-focused interview show hosted by Tafhim Kiani, bringing listeners candid conversations with journalists, scholars, activists, and policy experts from around the world. Each episode digs beneath the headlines to explore the forces shaping international conflict, diplomacy, and power.

By featuring guests with direct, on-the-ground experience and deep subject-matter expertise, Kianistan aims to offer listeners a more nuanced understanding of global affairs than typical mainstream coverage allows, encouraging critical thinking about the narratives presented by governments and media alike.

Frequently Asked Questions

What is World Beyond War?

World Beyond War is an international movement co-founded by David Swanson that campaigns for the abolition of war as a political and social institution, advocating for nonviolent alternatives to conflict resolution.

Why does David Swanson compare war to slavery?

Swanson argues that, like slavery, war was once considered a permanent and unavoidable feature of society but can be abolished through sustained political and cultural change.

Has the US Congress formally declared war recently?

No. The United States has engaged in numerous military conflicts for decades without a formal congressional declaration of war, instead relying on broad authorizations for the use of military force.

What role does propaganda play in modern warfare according to Swanson?

Swanson argues that propaganda techniques used to build public support for war have remained strikingly consistent across generations, relying on dehumanization of adversaries and manufactured urgency.

Conclusion

David Swanson’s conversation on the Kianistan Podcast challenges listeners to reconsider war not as an unavoidable fact of international life, but as a political choice sustained by identifiable economic and institutional interests.

Whether or not one agrees with every prescription he offers, his call to scrutinize the propaganda and incentives behind military conflict is a valuable lens for understanding the state of global affairs today.

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