Few academics can speak with as much authority on both classical Islamic history and the modern politics of religion and nationalism as Professor Khalid Blankinship. A convert to Islam since 1973 and a scholar of Islamic history at Temple University, Blankinship joins the Kianistan Podcast for a wide-ranging conversation that moves from his own remarkable conversion story to a rigorous historical analysis of how nationalism has repeatedly absorbed and distorted religion, including within Zionism itself.

Blankinship’s central thesis, delivered with the precision of someone who has spent a lifetime studying the mechanics of empire and belief, is a general principle: in the relationship between religion and state, the state always eats the religion, and the religion never eats the state. He traces this pattern from the wars between Rome and Persia through the rise of European nationalism to the ideological contradictions at the heart of modern Zionism.

The conversation also covers the collapse of the Assad regime, the prospects for Ahmed al-Sharaa’s new government in Syria, and the deep structural reasons why Turkey has never developed the kind of transnational religious movements found elsewhere in the Muslim world.

Key Topics Discussed

From Seattle Hippie to Islamic Scholar

Blankinship’s own path to Islam began far from any mosque, rooted instead in a secular Protestant upbringing and a period of extensive travel through the Arab world.

• He embraced Islam in 1973 at the age of 24, following 26 months of backpacking travel that included a year and a half in Arab countries.
• He describes being drawn to the strong family structures he observed in Muslim societies, which he later came to understand as rooted in the religion itself.
• Reading the Quran in English, and then in Arabic, convinced him of what he describes as the authentic voice of a message developed over thousands of years of Semitic religious tradition.
• He went on to master Arabic to an exceptional level, eventually delivering a 45-minute lecture in Arabic before King Hassan II inside the Royal Palace in Rabat, Morocco.

The Seven Aboriginal Nation States and the Birth of Nationalism

Blankinship offers a detailed historical account of how nationalism first emerged in a small cluster of Western European states before spreading outward with often catastrophic consequences.

• He identifies England, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden as the seven original ‘Aboriginal nation states’ where nationalism developed before 1600.
• Because these states had centuries to absorb nationalism gradually, he argues it came to them in a more manageable form than it did elsewhere.
• As nationalism spread eastward through Napoleon’s conquests and into multiethnic empires like Russia and the Ottoman lands, it arrived as a sudden, destabilising force rather than a gradual process.
• This sudden arrival, he argues, produced the fanatical, overlapping territorial claims that fuelled massacres and forced displacement across Eastern Europe.

The Core Contradiction of Zionism

Blankinship situates the rise of Zionism directly within this broader pattern of defensive, imitative nationalism spreading from its European origins.

• He argues Zionism arose specifically in the context of nationalism ‘seeping eastward’ into populations that had not previously organised around national identity.
• He describes Zionism as adopting the anti-semitic idea that Jews were a foreign body requiring their own nation-state, rather than a traditional religious conception of Jewish life.
• He notes the historical irony that interwar Poland’s government supported Zionism as a solution to its own domestic ‘Jewish problem’.
• His core objection, he states plainly, is to nationalism itself as a category, arguing Zionism represents a particularly stark case of religion being consumed by nationalist ideology.

The State Always Eats the Religion

This general historical principle forms the intellectual spine of the conversation, illustrated through examples spanning from antiquity to the present day.

• Blankinship traces the pattern back to the 700-year wars between Rome and Persia, where Zoroastrianism and Christianity were each adopted as mobilising ideologies rather than being fought over for their own sake.
• He argues Constantine’s adoption of Christianity as a state religion exemplifies this dynamic, a debate still argued among Christian scholars today.
• He extends this framework directly to Zionism, describing it as a ‘religion of statism’ before it is a religion of religious practice and spirituality.
• He is careful to note this does not mean sincere religious belief is absent among individuals, citing figures such as Rabbi Menachem Froman as genuine religious actors within a nationalist system.

Is the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Religious or Political?

Blankinship offers a clear framework for distinguishing genuine religious conflict from political conflict that merely borrows religious language.

• He argues the historic relationship between Muslims and Jews was not characterised by religious conflict, pointing to this as evidence the current conflict is fundamentally a material dispute over land.
• He compares this to the Roman-Persian wars, where religious mobilisation was appropriated by political and military leadership rather than driving the conflict itself.
• He cites Rabbi Yakov Shapiro’s anti-Zionist writing, describing Zionism as ‘kissing the idol’, as evidence that serious religious critique of Zionism exists within Judaism itself.
• His conclusion is that appropriated religious symbolism should not be mistaken for religious motivation when analysing the roots of the conflict.

Post-Assad Syria and the Limits of the New Regime

Blankinship offers a cautious, historically grounded assessment of Ahmed al-Sharaa’s new government and the obstacles it faces in consolidating power.

• He compares the swift collapse of the Assad regime to the collapse of Ethiopia’s Mengistu regime in 1991, describing both as a ‘cat eaten by a mouse’.
• He argues reconciliation between the new Syrian government and Israel is effectively impossible, partly because al-Sharaa’s own family originates from a Golan Heights village destroyed by Israel in 1967.
• He estimates the new government may command genuine support from only around 25 percent of the population, a level he notes is often sufficient to govern but insufficient for full cooperation.
• He highlights unresolved tensions with the Alawite region, the Druze in Suweida, and the Kurds as major obstacles to establishing a stable, unified Syrian state.

Major Takeaways

• Blankinship’s general historical principle is that the state always eats the religion, and the religion never eats the state.
• Nationalism first developed gradually in seven Western European ‘Aboriginal nation states’ before spreading eastward as a sudden, destabilising force.
• Zionism is described as adopting anti-semitic assumptions about Jewish identity, making it, in Blankinship’s framing, a religion of statism rather than of religious practice.
• The historic relationship between Muslims and Jews was not characterised by religious conflict, suggesting the modern conflict is fundamentally a material dispute over land.
• Reconciliation between post-Assad Syria and Israel is effectively impossible given the new government’s own history and territorial grievances.
• The new Syrian government likely commands only around 25 percent genuine popular support, a level sufficient to govern but not to secure full cooperation.

About Professor Khalid Blankinship

Professor Khalid Yahya Blankinship is a scholar of Islamic history at Temple University and a convert to Islam since 1973. His academic work focuses on early and classical Islamic history, and he is closely associated with a neotraditionalist current within American Islam that emphasises adherence to the classical schools of Islamic law and theology.

He is a longtime friend and interlocutor of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, with whom he shares an intellectual commitment to preserving traditional Islamic scholarship in a Western context.

Blankinship has spent decades examining the relationship between religion, nationalism, and state power, applying that lens to subjects ranging from the fall of empires to the contemporary politics of the Middle East.

• Classical and modern Islamic history
• The relationship between religion, nationalism, and the state
• Zionism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from a historical lens
• Post-Assad Syria and regional political dynamics

About Kianistan Podcast

Kianistan Podcast, hosted by Tafhim Kiani, is a long-form interview show dedicated to exploring history, religion, and geopolitics through detailed, unhurried conversation with leading scholars and analysts.

This episode reflects the podcast’s commitment to pairing rigorous historical scholarship with pressing contemporary questions, allowing a guest like Professor Blankinship to connect centuries of history directly to today’s headlines.

Kianistan Podcast regularly features scholars whose expertise spans both classical and modern periods, offering listeners a depth of context rarely found in conventional news coverage.

Frequently Asked Questions

What is Professor Blankinship’s central thesis about religion and the state?

He argues that in the relationship between religion and state, the state always eats the religion, and the religion never eats the state, a pattern he traces from antiquity to modern Zionism.

What are the ‘seven Aboriginal nation states’?

Blankinship identifies England, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden as the original nation-states where nationalism developed gradually before 1600, later spreading elsewhere as a more sudden and destabilising force.

Does Blankinship see the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as fundamentally religious?

No, he argues it is fundamentally a material dispute over land, noting that the historic relationship between Muslims and Jews was not characterised by religious conflict.

What does Blankinship say about the new Syrian government’s prospects?

He estimates it may have genuine support from only around 25 percent of the population and faces major unresolved tensions with the Alawite region, the Druze, and the Kurds.

Conclusion

Professor Blankinship’s conversation offers a rare synthesis of deep historical scholarship and clear-eyed contemporary analysis, grounded in a single, powerfully explanatory principle about the relationship between religion and state power. His framework helps explain patterns that recur across centuries and civilisations, from the Roman-Persian wars to the ideological contradictions within modern Zionism.

For listeners interested in the deeper historical currents shaping today’s headlines, this episode offers a rigorous and illuminating perspective from a scholar equally at home in classical Islamic history and the geopolitics of the present.

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